(Gary Nicholson), So out of great curiosity then - how would you describe to me (someone who doesn't have a clue) how the action would feel or perform with regard to a "Straight Taper Rod" comparatively speaking. (Peter Jones) In reading my post the tone seems a little harsh. It made a fine rod, but you have to smooth out the taper leading into and out of the 45 and 50" stations as the rod was designed for a step down ferrule. In the upper left corner, in blue, you'll see the real measurements we took, for all 3 flats at each measurement point. 0.144 (Mark Wendt), Was the varnish allowance of .004 already subtracted from the numbers for the 661510, or does it need to be done? 90 0.296 157251. I cannot come up with an application for a 7'6''#5, with its inherent disadvantages for roll casting. by SpringCreek 06/12/16 10:45, Post (David Atchison), Didn't Dickerson make his own ferrules and weren't they slightly oversized? It is quite different that the Garrison math method. You could have chosen Tom Fulk's true arc taper as the norm and try to describe the deviations from that. Gary - The following taper was taken from a varnished 8013. Whether you're picking out your very first fly-fishing rod or coming in for a new modern fly reel after years out on the water, Sportsman's Warehouse can supply you with the very best fly-fishing equipment. But if you are just interested in a rod made on a Dickerson taper, then any number of qualified makers exist. Starting at a tip dimension specific to a given line weight you add diameter to the length of the rod in linier increments until you reach the rod length you want. When things are stated incorrectly, many of the newer makers on the list can get very confused. Granger. I based the statement of one SLT for a line weight on Bob Norwood's tip dimensions. 10 .110 .254 And, it's true, if you were really screwed and couldn't get a Dickerson, and were absolutely forced to rough it with a Payne, I do think you could manage to get by without shedding too many tears. There are about 4 to 5 version of the 7013, I like the 1970 version the best. The difference is for a step-down ferrule. It's a 7 wt too but being a little shorter is easier on the arm and shoulder due to the shorter lever arm length. .334@35 by Aransas.clarks 05/09/09 02:49, Post If I were to make it I would use .040 bring the 80" value to .328, this is enough to stop all the rod action. To my way of looking at this taper, its definitely an 8 wt. And you are of course correct in pointing out that stress numbers means nothing without the particulars of the line weight and length. 0.102 I've also made an 8-1/2' with tip dimension of .072, which made a really nice 6/7 weight. So far everyone that has put the numbers up on Russ Goodings 7613 LT has listed 19 measurements. (Reed Guice), Dickerson used the ferrule sizes in the rod to denote both the ferrule and the number of pieces in the rod. the 3pc tapers were appropriated from other makers so it does not always hold true in that case. He has some of the original taper ledgers from Dickerson's shop and can clone a rod as well as anyone. (Nick Nasello), I made the Dickerson 8615 last year for lake bass and liked it but it does get to be a bit if a bear to cast after about 3 hours. 4 wt 0.0680 65 0.2565 Special Note on this rod/ All the snake guides on the tip are 2/0 and the mid are 1/0 with a 8 stripper on butt section. As you got more line out the rod would flex deeper into the shaft. I own one of his 7612s and it's a wonderful rod. As good a seven and a half foot 3-piece rod taper as any ever designed. .288@30 (Peter Jones), If you "Put some cane back" in the bottom eighteen inches or so of the top joint you will have removed most of my objections. These were Bailey Woods stepdown ferrules. Can someone explain what this means and what number should I use. Dickerson R.W. . (Mark Wendt), Thanks Dennis! I understand your point, but you can see it is an arbitrary line in the sand. I don't think anyone fishes the same. The butt was merely an extension pole to keep the tip further from the ground. Bill said that the book he has written on the subject is going to the printers and should be out soon.. (No financial interest.) by avyoung 06/12/16 21:15, Post The ordeal with the broken rod changed my whole way of looking at ferrule sizes. Stress curves are the only tool I have seen that give you a visual image of exactly what you have changed and the consequences of that action. This butt can be a foot shorter than the tip and of straight taper. Typically it is a heavy tip section combined with a light butt section. You may, or may not, as a rod designer, wish to achieve either, but probably not both! 20 0.131 154180 (Henry Mitchell), Yes but those 2 particular tapers are what many Dickerson aficionados refer to as the 7613 Guide and are much more comfortable with a 6 wt line than a 5 wt. (Inches) (Inches) Stress Ephemera, empherma and Ephemerella.. Photos, paintings, written stories and talents. Lyle Dickerson (1892-1981) has long been known as a pioneer in rodbuilding, due partly to his use of machinery in production but primarily appreciated by fishermen for many of his fast and accurate taper designs. Don't you find short rods a problem on those splendid Yorkshire chalk streams? It's the important half, too, the other one is less important than line weight, I refer you to the basic laws of aerodynamics, this post is already too long! Even if you take off 0.006 for varnish, in case that wasnt done, its still a 7 1/2 wt. The tip tapers are the only redeeming feature of his designs, and now you tell me they were not deliberate, I'll burn my copy of "The Book" immediately, at least I shall be spared tolerating toadying references to "Garry" when ever (very seldom, in fact) I refer to it! I look forward to continuing it, However I am off to spend a week over on the Henry's Fork. 0.120 I have a tough time roll casting over about 65' with any rod, no matter how long or limber. 90 0.329 An awful lot of fudging, especially as he could have made up tip rings quite easily. Except that they are US rated and thus #5's! I like 8013's. Some rods might in fact be best with a line weight that falls between two designated ones eg. Gillum Rods. The idea is that the butt must not bend, and when it does its only at the very end, if it bends further down then the height of the line above the ground is dramatically reduced and thus fully one half of the "High speed high line" proposition is not met. I would also like to know why a Dickerson 7613 taper imparts those characteristics. My son likes the 7613 but he fishes mostly the bigger waters of the west and I'm thinking the 8013 would be a better rod for him. For the tip section use the smaller number and for the butt section use the larger number. 8ft #5wt. (Mark Wendt), Well, Payne sure has Dickerson beat for workmanship and material. (Mark Wendt), Dickerson (like all of us who draw their own tubing) used 1/64 wall tubing to construct his ferrules. Know what to expect when you visit LAN, so you can feel prepared for your upcoming trip! Only lost 1/2 inch in rod length. So a 13 size ferrule has a female and male sleeve that is .203 and a male insert that is .1718 or 11/64's. It does handle a 7 very well too. Let's be honest about this. Bamboo Tips - Tips Area I'll give you a bit of background on the question. Over the time I have made rods. You can build this rod and have a neutral action rod (my term). Jim Schaaf. I am sure that the step-downs are important in copying the taper design exactly. I have modified these tapers to adjust them for what I think is a more modern feel. You bring up a question I have been trying to work through for some time. Yes you do have the seemingly limitless variation of moving the point or points and amount of material added or removed along the rod length. Yes, there are specific applications for a 7'6" 5wt here in Michigan. You can design a flyrod, racing bicycle, airplane or motorcar to do one thing superbly with ease. (Bob Norwood). I would be interested to hear Bob Norwood's approach on this issue. Most of the classic rodmakers continually "fudged" their tapers over the years (sometimes unintentionally due to machine and pattern wear, and sometimes deliberately). 0.160 The trouble is, really, that I know there are people out there who really do understand taper design, it's getting them to talk to us about it thats the problem. As Lou points out, it is nicest with the kind of ferrule Dickerson made himself. At location 45, the taper shows the numbers 208/213. Straight tapers are just that, nobody needs to develop them, as if they did they wouldn't be straight anymore. I think the perfectionist is a fine taper and rod. One of our most recognizable rod models with a deep flamed color and crisper action. 0.360 (Jay Hake). Yes. double taper silk lines at short ranges. (David Atchison), Wondered if anyone had the taper for the Dickerson 8012 laying around. If you would like to give Michigan a try, let me know. Your projected experiment may be described as simplistic and wasteful of time by some, but I think that you will learn a very great deal about what you personally like about taper rates. 2023 American Museum Of Fly Fishing. The stepped down portion of the male is 2/64's smaller than the sleeve. 15 .128 .278 But if you decide to tell the world that this is therefore the right way to design a fishing rod then I'm going to disagree with you!" Chris likes it for Smallmouth on the Shenandoah. (If memory serves me right Tony Young sells step down ferrules for Dickerson rods, so you may try that.) One authority I know claims Jim Payne actually built more fly rods than Orvis. Dickerson Rods. More than an eight weight is required to handle the largest of flies. Obviously, custom tapers take a little longer to develop and build. by Lee Koch 06/12/16 21:18, Post OK, the rod was a Paul Young Perfectionist. 40 0.184 85 0.296 138357 Suggest that you subtract .006 for varnish. Experience the difference of a Mystic Fly Rod on your next expedition. 4070 Main Street, 15 0.115 163502 As long as a maker includes the correct ferrule drop, Dickerson tapers are no more difficult to make than most others. Gift of Heidi Bedford, Yearc. (Greg Reeves), This version appears to me to take a step into account. (Robin Haywood), I think you have missed the point completely, just how many straight tapers have you made and what are their tip and station values? (Reed Guice). Even then I wince about their roll casting deficiencies. It does not do anything to the action as most of the last 3 inches is inside the ferrule anyway. In fact I've just made a new tip for it as the original developed a kink when being cooked to set off the UHU which no amount of ironing will remove. Because Ritz was not an engineer, any more than Creusevaut or Plantet were (although the latter may have been a competent mechanic) it was thought that the extension pole should be just that, a large diameter pole of slow taper. I just put stepdown ferrules on my first rod, an 8014 Dickerson. 8 wt 0.0830 0.369 (Robin Haywood). Digger Digere. DICKERSON 8013 RBS Special - 8' 2/2 - 5wt- honey colored - the legendary 8013 Special is an impressive and powerful med/fast action all-round trout -- taper miked from a Ray Bergman original shop rod. An 8014, would be an 8' two piece, with a size 14 ferrule amidships. (Stephen Dugmore). The other issue is mandrels and they just don't come in 1/128 sizes. The best reason that I can give you as to why Dickersons are popular tapers (Along with another Michigan maker Paul Young) is that they are nice casting rods and fit our fishing very well. Consider one or the other of these two if your rod maker intends to fit the rod with step down ferrules, since there is a .010" step down across the ferrule stations. It throws up some very interesting facts. For anyone who hasn't done so, it is a really simple and useful exercise to combine tapers for rods of the same length and line weight in a spreadsheet such as excel and make a line chart of them. (Paul Blakley), I have a taper for the Dickerson 7613 and am a little confused. Bogart Classic Wet Fly Rod 8.5 ft 5 wt Tip 5/64 For a DT #4 Here is a good classic wet fly taper that a real conisour of fly fishing would enjoy. The Paul Young Perfectionist. by avyoung 06/16/16 18:33, Post (Mark Shamburg). I did subtract the .006 when I made mine and I love it as I do every Dickerson taper that I've cast. by trouttrapper 06/12/16 09:32, Post Design notes: Dennis Higham's 861711 found in David Ray's taper archive is also designated a 'D' model. If you want to make overweight rods with unnecessarily heavy tips and relatively floppy butts then straight tapers will deliver. (Frank Stetzer, Hexrod, Taper Archive, Rodmakers Archive). 5 wt 0.0720 Remember that respect and civility is the goal of this board. Step Down debate again. Assuming this to be thus you have made adjustments so small that they are mostly below normal error, and if we allow a factor for variation in natural materials then the exercise becomes entirely futile except as an exercise in applied physics! Besides, he's a fun guy to chat with about almost anything to do with fly fishing and the outdoors. Besides that, he's extremely knowledgeable about Dickerson, is the present owner of the Dickerson rod shop, and has an extreme reverence for Lyle's creations and tapers. This rod consists of medium tempered cane constructed in a 3x3 node pattern with Dickerson tan wraps and black tipping. 0.278 That's like saying that only the 49ers could find gold. I will add my 2 cents. A longer rod would help with the line control, but the drifts tend to be fairly short to rising fish. Dave Norling, Rush River Rods, makes a stepdown 13/12 ferrule, the only size stepdown that he offers , that works very well for this taper. (four piece) carbon fiber spey blank. November - May Ten measurements on the butt and ten stations on the tip. (John Silveira). You can vary the slope to get the "speed" you want (Garrison's are .013/5"; a B-9 .015/5"; and I've built them as fast as .018/5"). by jim royston 05/26/17 08:58, Return to Rod making, restoration, repairs and discussion on those related topics concerning bamboo rods., Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited. As for roll casting, the only person I know who documented his thoughts was Wayne Cattanach.. But I imagine that high output builders didn't have every rod turn out the same for whatever reason. Just basic principles that have been around for years. 45 .216 .375 At The Airport. . well there is your answer. by Morten 05/26/17 03:35, Post They would be, Heavy butt section, Light butt section, heavy tip, light tip, Parabolic (heavy in the middle) and the hinge (light in the middle). Maybe it is the version of the taper they are making, there are several out there. The rod action will not resemble a straight line taper any longer. For those of you that have built this rod, does it flex into the beginning of the handle? Modern feel imagine that high output builders did n't Dickerson make his own ferrules and were n't slightly! This means and what number should I use rod would help with broken. Has listed 19 measurements broken rod changed my whole way of looking at ferrule sizes the question had taper! He has some of the original taper ledgers from Dickerson 's shop and clone... 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